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This panel took me by surprise a bit because I didn't expect it to be so grounded in Fables the graphic novel. As is, it definitely gave me reason to read the thing. Our panelists were Michael Burnstein (filling in as moderator), Timothy Liebe, Jane Yolen, and Bruce Coville. Tamora Pierce, who suggested this panel and was to have moderated it was, alas, unable to make it. In the introductions, we learned that Tamora Pierce and Tim Liebe are working for Marvel, writing White Tiger, and that Jane Yolen will soon have two graphic novels out. One of Yolen's upcoming novels will be Stone Cold - a gargoyle detective noir. Sounds fun.
Fables itself is a series put out by DC/Vertigo with the premise that fantasy and folklore are all real and the lands where these beings live have been devastated by an unknown being called the Adversary. A small contingent of fairy tale creatures then escapes to New York and sets up a community with the Big Bad Wolf as the chief of security. It's definitely a "mature audiences" comic. The writer does play a bit with the concepts of faith dictating the power of the tale (more, I'm told, in the spin-off), and while it starts with the more traditional fairy creatures Western audiences know, it does get more diverse as the story continues. For those curious, DC has put the entire first issue online.
The panel spent most of the time discussing Fables, but they did give out some other recommendations. American-Born Chinese was at the top of the list, Red Star by Image Comics, and Castle Waiting.
They also discussed why they thought the graphic novel marked it is booming. Jane Yolen suggested it may be due to manga, and that it's easier to read a graphic novel than something 500 pages long, and Neil Gaiman. Bruce Coville suggested that more people do dark fantasy in YA these days, and that market also crosses over with some of the dark fantasy graphic novels that have been coming out for years. Tim Liebe noted that as fantasy and manga have tapped into the female audience, DC is putting out a line called Minx (oy!) which is going to be girl-oriented comic books largely written by middle-aged men.
I was going to write up George R. R. Martin's reading, but someone else did it better right here.
The Urban Fantasy panel was the last one I attended on Saturday, and I was a bit late to it, so I missed the intros.![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
matociquala was moderating again, and the other panel participants were Andrew Wheeler and Mark Del Franco. I came in just as Bear was commenting that urban fantasy spans a vast range of contemporary and supernatural, liminal experience, wherein there is a breakthrough of the liminal into the mundane.
Andrew Wheeler suggested that urban fantasy can be broken down into two types. Type I is the Charles de Lint, Holly Black, and Emma Bull model, and Type II is the Laurel K. Hamilton, Buffy the Vampire Slayer "Vampire Shaggers" model.
Mark Del Franco volunteered that Gaiman is also an urban fantasy writer, and asked whether there was a difference between first and third person as regard to the way Type I and Type II stories are told, and Andrew Wheeler responded that he percieved Type I as being more first-person narrative. There was some discussion of whether Roger Zelazny was an urban fantasy writer (specifically as regards Corwin's voice throughout the Amber books).
Next, Mark Del Franco said that urban fantasy speaks to a modern audience and asked whether the character of a city has a place in urban fantasy. Andrew Wheeler said that he saw that more as development of a second-world city. Hereellen_kushner's City and Riverside emerged as an example, and Bear suggested that fantasy of manners doesn't have to intersect with urban fantasy, but occasionally does in the way the author deals with their city. The difference is that fantasy of manners doesn't have the sense of discovery that urban fantasy does. She also brought up the idea of urban fantasy heroes being either marginalized or made special and enobled (or both).
There was a bit of a digression into how noir represents authority as always corrupt and how comic book superheroes have different tropes that too, occasionally intersect, such as when Batman has to deal with a unicorn running amock. Here my notes on who said what go a bit spotty, but there was discussion of how urban fantasy can be intersticial, overlapping with noir in its night-time settings. There was an expansion of the "vampire shagging" definition into "elf-shagging" and "werewolf-shagging" and the presence of butt-kicking women which functions as an inversion of the tradition of the damsel in distress.
The butt-kicking women led to a discussion of Types I & II as brain versus brawn, and Type II as an extension of sex being power. Bear said she had a problem with that as that suggests that "all power derives from men," and Andrew Wheeler pointed out that that probably emerges from the heavy cross-over with the romance writers and readers. Then the discussion strayed into Anne Rice and whether Interview with a Vampire was urban fantasy or not. Tanya Huff came up again as fantasy police procedural (the books with "blood" in the title).
The discussion briefly strayed into the ways of looking at a genre, inside versus outside. There was a brief discussion of computer fantasy and technomancers that made me think of Sex in the System. At some point in time, Bear pointed out that she doesn't see Types I & II as discreet forms so much as a continuum.
Andrew Wheeler finished by pointing out that it's a good thing that the taxonomy of urban fantasy is so difficult, and Mark Del Franco added that relating to stuff and magic in combination is also a good thing.
Next up, Sunday!
Fables itself is a series put out by DC/Vertigo with the premise that fantasy and folklore are all real and the lands where these beings live have been devastated by an unknown being called the Adversary. A small contingent of fairy tale creatures then escapes to New York and sets up a community with the Big Bad Wolf as the chief of security. It's definitely a "mature audiences" comic. The writer does play a bit with the concepts of faith dictating the power of the tale (more, I'm told, in the spin-off), and while it starts with the more traditional fairy creatures Western audiences know, it does get more diverse as the story continues. For those curious, DC has put the entire first issue online.
The panel spent most of the time discussing Fables, but they did give out some other recommendations. American-Born Chinese was at the top of the list, Red Star by Image Comics, and Castle Waiting.
They also discussed why they thought the graphic novel marked it is booming. Jane Yolen suggested it may be due to manga, and that it's easier to read a graphic novel than something 500 pages long, and Neil Gaiman. Bruce Coville suggested that more people do dark fantasy in YA these days, and that market also crosses over with some of the dark fantasy graphic novels that have been coming out for years. Tim Liebe noted that as fantasy and manga have tapped into the female audience, DC is putting out a line called Minx (oy!) which is going to be girl-oriented comic books largely written by middle-aged men.
I was going to write up George R. R. Martin's reading, but someone else did it better right here.
The Urban Fantasy panel was the last one I attended on Saturday, and I was a bit late to it, so I missed the intros.
matociquala was moderating again, and the other panel participants were Andrew Wheeler and Mark Del Franco. I came in just as Bear was commenting that urban fantasy spans a vast range of contemporary and supernatural, liminal experience, wherein there is a breakthrough of the liminal into the mundane.Andrew Wheeler suggested that urban fantasy can be broken down into two types. Type I is the Charles de Lint, Holly Black, and Emma Bull model, and Type II is the Laurel K. Hamilton, Buffy the Vampire Slayer "Vampire Shaggers" model.
Mark Del Franco volunteered that Gaiman is also an urban fantasy writer, and asked whether there was a difference between first and third person as regard to the way Type I and Type II stories are told, and Andrew Wheeler responded that he percieved Type I as being more first-person narrative. There was some discussion of whether Roger Zelazny was an urban fantasy writer (specifically as regards Corwin's voice throughout the Amber books).
Next, Mark Del Franco said that urban fantasy speaks to a modern audience and asked whether the character of a city has a place in urban fantasy. Andrew Wheeler said that he saw that more as development of a second-world city. Here
ellen_kushner's City and Riverside emerged as an example, and Bear suggested that fantasy of manners doesn't have to intersect with urban fantasy, but occasionally does in the way the author deals with their city. The difference is that fantasy of manners doesn't have the sense of discovery that urban fantasy does. She also brought up the idea of urban fantasy heroes being either marginalized or made special and enobled (or both).There was a bit of a digression into how noir represents authority as always corrupt and how comic book superheroes have different tropes that too, occasionally intersect, such as when Batman has to deal with a unicorn running amock. Here my notes on who said what go a bit spotty, but there was discussion of how urban fantasy can be intersticial, overlapping with noir in its night-time settings. There was an expansion of the "vampire shagging" definition into "elf-shagging" and "werewolf-shagging" and the presence of butt-kicking women which functions as an inversion of the tradition of the damsel in distress.
The butt-kicking women led to a discussion of Types I & II as brain versus brawn, and Type II as an extension of sex being power. Bear said she had a problem with that as that suggests that "all power derives from men," and Andrew Wheeler pointed out that that probably emerges from the heavy cross-over with the romance writers and readers. Then the discussion strayed into Anne Rice and whether Interview with a Vampire was urban fantasy or not. Tanya Huff came up again as fantasy police procedural (the books with "blood" in the title).
The discussion briefly strayed into the ways of looking at a genre, inside versus outside. There was a brief discussion of computer fantasy and technomancers that made me think of Sex in the System. At some point in time, Bear pointed out that she doesn't see Types I & II as discreet forms so much as a continuum.
Andrew Wheeler finished by pointing out that it's a good thing that the taxonomy of urban fantasy is so difficult, and Mark Del Franco added that relating to stuff and magic in combination is also a good thing.
Next up, Sunday!
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