Because lodessa asked for ASoIaF Discussion...

[adelynne]

Let's talk Targaryens and prophesies. Spoilers ahoy!

A bit of RL trivia - lab work can occasionally be trance-inducing. Especially when I'm stuck on a particular point. With this in mind, you might understand that, having just read one of the Cersei chapters in A Feast for Crows I came to an odd sequence of revelations regarding the prophesy the maegi gave her:

1. The Queen Younger and More Beautiful who casts her down is Daenerys, not Margaery.

2. Given 1, Cersei may actually be right about Tyrion killing her. I originally thought her way off-base given that Jaime was also a younger brother, but knowing that Tyrion will join Dany's forces increases his chances. That said, Tyrion seems to have lost his stomach for kin-slaying having offed Tywin.

My personal take is that the three heads are Daenerys, Jon, and Aegon. Martin has confirmed that Rhaenys was killed, but refused to confirm the same for Aegon. Further, it's become clear at this point that Daenerys has taken the role of the original Aegon the Conqueror, which means she should have someone to balance Rhaenys and Visenya.

Going a tad deeper - Rhaegar knew something of it. He expected three children, he tells Elia as much in the vision Dany sees in the House of the Undying, and Barristan informs her later that though he was not inclined to it, something in the books of prophesy told Raegar that he must be a warrior.

So, how'd Aegon escape? As it may be apparent, I have a theory:

Everyone says that Ashara Dayne threw herself into the sea at Starfall, brokenhearted over Ned's marriage to Catelyn. Everyone. In fact, it's a very persistent rumor that Ned can't stand to have his new bride repeat to him.

But what if she didn't? Ashara was one of Elia's companions, and yet she had left King's Landing prior to its sack (Ned returns Arthur Dayne's sword to her after Lyanna and the Tower in Dorne). What if she smuggled the infant Aegon out of the city prior to the sack, probably after Robert's victory on the Trident? The kingsguard is at the Tower of Joy with Lyanna, guarding the king, so it is concievable that Aegon was with Lyanna after the death of his father and grandfather (which is why none of the kingsguard would go with Viserys and Rhaella). Ned (Howland Reed in tow) kills the kingsguard and returns Dawn and Aegon to Ashara at Starfall. They cook up this story of Ashara falling into the sea, and she left Westeros with the little king.

Which brings me to "Who" and the "Where"?

And my answer is Daario. I know it's hardly original, and he's sort of too late a gun on the wall to go off in the right time, but for once, the signals seem to fit. A natural leader who keeps dyeing his hair (to keep the silver hidden?) with "almost purple" eyes? Keep in mind, Aegon was supposed to look more Targaryen than Rhaenys. Anyone trying to hide this rather unique heritage might take such steps.

It would also explain Dany's being drawn to him.

And on this note, I go drink tea and sleep. My brain is dead from trying to find one GRRM answer in the Citadel.

(Also, queenofthorns, have you seen Amoka's galleries? I think I like his art more than the artbook.)

Comments

[lareinenoire.livejournal.com]

I've been suspicious of the whole Ashara Dayne thing for a very long time. In fact, ever since I first read about it in AGoT. It just seems too...too... I don't know. But too something. And something else occurs to me -- Ashara Dayne is described as having violet eyes and pale colouring, so if she *did* escape to one of the Nine Free Cities with the Targaryen heir, who's to say she couldn't have passed Aegon off as her own son?

And I rarely trust deaths where you never see the body. Too many murder mysteries and Renaissance plays.

The Daario theory is really interesting, and you raise some very valid points. Especially Dany being attracted to him when it's fairly obvious that she hasn't been attracted to anyone that strongly, other than Drogo.

[lodessa.livejournal.com]

Clearly the younger and more beautiful is Dany... I sort of wish it could be Sansa though... just because Cersei was so awful to her.

Also I really like your theory.

And wow... that art actually makes me want to make SoIaF icons

[adelynne.livejournal.com]

Cersei was awful to a lot of people. If all of them had their chance at her, there wouldn't be enough left to go around. ;P

And yes, the art is full of the pretty. I'm really fond of his Targaryen gallery, and Jon.

[lodessa.livejournal.com]

Haha... well hopefully Cersei is about to get hers... although somehow I doubt it.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

I know Martin hasn't confirmed specifically that Aegon died, but I have a really hard time believing that he's alive (Martin also said "what do you think?" when asked if Syrio Forel was still alive since we never saw a body). Furthermore, I don't see how Ashara Dayne smuggling Aegon from the Tower of Joy ties in remotely to Ned's deathbed promise to Lyanna and it's really stretching credibility for me to believe that there were TWO young babies that Ned made promises about. Also, Viserys and Rhaella left King's Landing BEFORE the deaths of Rhaegar and Aerys, so at that point there was no reason to believe that little Aegon was actually the King. (And they're often used to guard other members of the royal family besides the actual King anyway - remember Arys Oakheart is sent to Dorne to guard Myrcella, long before she's even a potential real heir to the throne?)

Sorry, I think this is really far-fetched. But I also think the literal "three heads of the dragon" thing might not be what the stories about either - if "the dragon" is not the three dragons specifically but the forces that will defeat the others, then I think it's arguable that it's Dany (clearly with her dragons), Jon and Bran who are the three heads of whatever will defeat the Others.

[adelynne.livejournal.com]

Good points all. The whole idea stems from something a friend of mine reminded me of - in Ned's fevered memories of the ToJ one of the Kingsguard (I can't for the life of me recall which one) says that they didn't go after Rhaella and Viserys because the Kingsguard stays with the king.

He originally used it to make the case for Jon = child of Lyanna & Rhaegar, which makes sense, except as far as we know, no one knew that Lyanna would give birth to a boy.

Eh, its all theory. I'm not married to any of it, with the possible exception of Ashara not jumping to her death at Starfall.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

they didn't go after Rhaella and Viserys because the Kingsguard stays with the king.

But I don't think that's true; and in any case, RHAEGAR sent them to the ToJ (they're nowhere near King's Landing in any of Jaime's memories of the period before the Trident) and at that point, neither Jon, nor Aegon, nor Viserys, nor for that matter, Rhaegar himself, were King because Aerys was still alive. So for this theory to be true, all of the KG would have to be with AERYS, not with Rhaegar or his children. Aerys sends Rhaella and Viserys away AFTER Rhaegar's death on the Trident - at which point, several of the KG members have either died (or in Barristan's case, been severely wounded), and he won't let anyone take Elia away because he wants to ensure the loyalty of her brother Lewin (who is also a KG member) by keeping her as a kind of hostage in King's Landing (just as he keeps Jaime to ensure that Tywin comes in on the right side if at all).

Anyway, we know the Kingsguard is often separated from the King himself - viz Aerys sending Jaime away from the tournament at Harrenhall; or the fact that six of the KG were not in King's Landing protecting Aerys from Jaime killing him. So that logic doesn't work for me. It works that Rhaegar would send some of them with Lyanna to the ToJ probably BEFORE the rebellion, especially if he thought her child was to be the Prince that Was Promised, but he had no idea he was going to die on the Trident or that Jaime would kill his father, so there was no reason to believe that Aegon was going to be king.

And heh on Ashara - I really think she's pretty much dead as well. She's a minor character, and if we're going to see other Dayne's besides the poseur Gothboy in Dorne, I bet it's Edric Dayne we see in future. Sorry - I think Martin is at the point where he's killing off characters, not introducing new ones or miraculously reviving people we think are dead (and he's played pretty fair with that so far - most people who are believed dead really ARE dead). If there's any resurrecting in ADwD, I suspect it's going to be Davos, who is probably not quite as dead as rumor would have him - and frankly, I'd rather see him than some girl we heard about in a couple of flashback thirdhand narrations, you know?

[adelynne.livejournal.com]

Oh, I definitely hope we don't see Ashara. And I do think rumors of Davos's death were greatly exagerated. Somehow I doubt Manderly would hand someone so valueable to the woman who imprisoned and killed Ned Stark.

I'm all for Ashara having died prior to the action. I'm just more interested in her doing something important prior to shuffling off this mortal coil. She's been brought up too much for that not to be the case.

And total "Hee" on the "poseur Gothboy" thing.

I can't argue the kingsguard bits - you're right, certainly, they've wandered very far from the king as written, and I have not AGoT to look it up and reread. Something about it just keeps rubbing me as annoying. It is entirely possible I'm reading too much into it, though.

The problem, of course, is that if Jon is Rhaegar's child he displaces Dany in the line just as easily as an Aegon would. I still like the theory that he is - it fits too neatly to be otherwise.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

The problem, of course, is that if Jon is Rhaegar's child he displaces Dany

But Jon is illegitimate, which would mean he has no claim to the throne (not to mention those vows which led him to refuse Winterfell - which probably emotionally means a lot more to him than all of Westeros might).

I really think the ambiguity regarding Aegon is purely so that there can be some kind of pretender later on without everyone going "pffft, that's completely ridiculous!"

As for Ashara, well, I actually think the role she may posthumously play has much more to do with Jon than with anything to do with Aegon. After all, there was a wetnurse named Willa who nursed both Jon and Edric Dayne, and she might have some clue to his identity (which, although it seems obvious to all of us readers, is going to be probably a very huge revelation to Jon himself).

Just think about the timing of anyone smuggling Aegon out of King's Landing - they would have to be there between the Trident and Aerys's death, and remember that no one has any reason to believe that King's Landing is going to fall so easily to Robert's forces because a) no one knows Jaime's going to kill Aerys; b) no one knows Tywin Lannister is going to intervene on Robert's side and that Aerys will be foolish enough to let him in the city (remember it's TYWIN'S men who kill Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon). It would have been the height of foolishness to take him out of a city that was built to withstand a siege (since no one knew Aerys was planning to blow the place up) and risk his exposure to the perils of travelling across a wartorn country) and therefore, by the time anyone realized Aegon was in mortal danger, it would, IMO have been far too late to get him out of King's Landing anyway.

I dunno - I like my Occam's Razor. And if it's this complicated, I just don't feel that it works. But like I said, I don't really like to speculate - Martin always manages to surprise me with things like the Red Wedding and I like it that way.